Inner City Press reporting on Twitter:
OK – now US v. #GhislaineMaxwell trial Day 3, AM, Witness-1 “Jane” still on the stand under cross examination. Inner City Press reported the overnight briefing http://innercitypress.com/sdnytrial30cmaxwellicp113021.html… (letter on Patreon https://patreon.com/posts/59360310 ) & will live tweet – thread below
Judge Nathan: If what the defense bring in is impeachment [of the Witness] material, it’s not a Rule 16 issue. AUSA Rohrbach: It should have been disclosed; it is about a collateral matter. [Note: these are the lawyers’ arguments before the jury comes in at 9:30]
AUSA: The witness couldn’t even recognize the photo, & it wasn’t impeachment of what she said on the stand. Judge Nathan: What is the US’ understanding of when the witness lived in the address in the [FBI] 302? AUSA Alison Moe: At 14 she was living in a pool house
Maxwell’s lawyer: In her application to Interlochen [music school] she listed the address that he showed her yesterday. Maxwell’s lawyer Laura Menninger: She already said on the record that she lived in the same place after she met Epstein until she moved to NY
Judge Nathan: Is there anything we can discuss at [non public] sidebar, before the jury comes in? AUSA: Some issues we can only do when they come up. Judge Nathan: OK, then I’m going to step down for a few minutes. Clerk: All rise! Thread will continue below.
OK, they’re back. Judge Nathan: The jury is ready. AUSA: We do have one issue to raise at sidebar. Judge Nathan: Let’s see if we can get to the break without. Before the defense shows the jury the [confidential] binder, raise it here.
Assistant US Attorney: We have an objection to tabloid articles from the Internet being introduced as evidence. Judge Nathan: You have a general Internet objection? AUSA: No, we’ll raise them one by one. Judge Nathan: Let’s bring out the jury. Clerk: All rise!
Maxwell’s lawyer Menninger: Did you turn 17 in your final year at Interlochen [art/music school]? Pseudonymous witness “Jane” – No, I was 16. Menninger: Jurors, pick up the smaller binder under your chairs and turn to J-3.
Menninger: And your application said you came from a “long and loving family,” right? Jane: That’s what it says. Menninger: Do you recognize the document? Jane: I do not recognize it per se. But I see my signature. Menninger: It’s your application to Interlochen
Menninger: When you spoke to your younger brother, you didn’t mention there was a woman, correct? Jane: I don’t think so. Menninger: And you told a news source that you were approached by Ghislaine, no mention of Ghislaine, correct? Jane: I don’t remember that.
Menninger: When you got to Epstein’s house with your mother – your house was in West Palm Beach, right? Jane: No, it was in Palm Beach – Menninger: You didn’t cross any state lines, did you? Jane: No I didn’t. There were only the 3 of us having tea.
Menninger: Have you ever spoken with your sisters about your boyfriends? Jane: I didn’t have any boyfriends… Assistant US Attorney: Can we have a brief sidebar about this? Whispered sidebar.
Sidebar finally over. Maxwell’s lawyer Menninger: Look at the last line in the top paragraph. You told the agents that Epstein would decide where everyone sat — AUSA: Objection! She should only ask, Does it refresh your recollection.
Judge Nathan: Go ahead and ask. Menninger: Does it refresh your recollection? Jane: Yes. Menninger: And there was nothing sexual in the theater. Jane: Right [Note: Jury may hear about New Mexico movie theater acts later in trial]
Menninger: Yesterday, it said it was shortly after the pool house that you had this incident with Epstein and Ghislaine, right? AUSA: Objection as to form. Judge Nathan: Specify what you’re talking about. AUSA: Objection. Menninger: This is foundational.
Menninger: You told the government you do not have a specific memory of your first time with Ghislaine — AUSA: Objection! Menninger: You have come up with the memory in the last two years? Jane: I don’t believe I have come up with memory, no.
Jane: It is not typed up right on this form. Maxwell’s lawyer Menninger: Another typo by the government. AUSA: Objection! Menninger: You told the government Ghislaine never used sex toys or a vibrator on you, correct? Jane: Correct. [Note: that’s what was asked]
Menninger went on to ask Jane if Ghislaine ever saw her perform oral sex on Epstein (no), hand job (no), intercourse (no). Note: We’re not going blow-by-blow for this portion. Menninger: Look at 39-008 at Page 5, does this refresh your recollection? Jane: No.
Menninger: You said Ghislaine never saw you perform oral sex on Epstein. Jane: I don’t recall. Menninger: Look at the document. Judge Nathan: Let’s take a break. [Podcast coming; if there’s time, stories on http://InnerCityPress.com &
OK – In US v. #GhislaineMaxwell, now final segment before end of Day 3, it’s Victim Jane’s ex-boyfriend “Matt,” uses pseudonym.
Inner City Press covered AM http://innercitypress.com/sdnytrial31maxwellicp120121.html… & will live tweet, thread below
Inner City Press@innercitypress · Nov 27#CourtCaseCast 5: Ghislaine Maxwell UN Memory Decay Blues by Matthew Russell Lee: Ghislaine Maxwell complains to the United Nations They helped with Terramar & other scam creations Loftus says your memory’s decaying How much is paid for the blaming she’s saying?
AUSA Moe: How do you know Jane? Matt: She’s my ex-girlfriend. From 2006 to 2014. AUSA: Did you live together? Matt: Yes. From 2007 to 2014. AUSA: Are you still friends? Matt: Yes. And we work on the same TV show.
AUSA: What did Jane tell you about her home life? Maxwell’s lawyer: Objection. Judge Nathan: Any foundation? Maxwell’s lawyer: It’s hearsay. [Another non-public sidebar]
They return. Judge Nathan: Ms. Moe, I’ll ask you to narrow the question. AUSA Moe: Did Jane speak about her family finance when she grew up? Matt: Yes. That when her father got sick, they went broke. The mother was working a small job. They were in the same bed.
Matt: They she told me she had a godfather. Later she told me it was Jeffrey Epstein. I said, He helped pay your bills? She said Yes. AUSA: When did she tell you she met Epstein? Maxwell’s lawyer: Objection. Judge Nathan: Ask more specific questions.
AUSA Moe: Did Jane tell you what happened between her and Jeffrey Epstein? Matt: Not specifically. AUSA Moe: Did she say why he gave her money? Matt: She just said, It was not free.
AUSA Moe: Did they tell you about a women who was involved? Matt: Yes. AUSA: Did she give the woman’s name? Matt: No. AUSA: What was her demeanor like when Jane told you about Jeffrey Epstein? Matt: Shame.
AUSA: What did Jane tell her mother? Matt: That the money was not free. That — AUSA: Don’t say what the mother said, just what Jane said. Matt: Jane told her mother that the money was not free and that it should not have been allowed.
AUSA Moe: Did you learn Ghislaine Maxwell was arrested. Matt: Yes. On the news. I asked Jane, is that the woman you told me about? And she said Yes. AUSA: No further questions. Then Maxwell’s lawyer: No cross [!] Next witness: Daniel Vesselsen of Interlochen
AUSA: Where is Interlochen, Michigan. Vesselsen: Near Traverse City. AUSA: How do you keep fundraising records? Vesselsen: SalesForce. AUSA: We offer GX 744 under seal. Now GX 741. Vesselsen: A letter to Mr. Epstein about the scholarship lodge, how much he’d give
AUSA: What’s this? Vesselsen: The lodge formerly known as the Jeffrey Epstein Scholarship Lodge. [Note: It was definitely time for a name change]
Now at 4:59 pm, cross examination starts. Maxwell’s lawyer: You don’t have records for the individual and the individual’s siblings, correct? Vesselsen: Correct. Maxwell’s lawyer: Mr. Epstein certainly was a major donor, correct? Vesselsen: Yes.
And with that, Vesselsen is done. Judge Nathan: Sorry we’re 2 minutes late. Have a good night. Clerk: All rise!
Here are some takeaways from the third day of the trial:
The defense suggested Jane actually came from a supportive family with means.
The defense questioned Jane’s account of Ghislaine Maxwell’s involvement in her abuse.
A former boyfriend said Jane told him about some of the abuse.
A trip to New York to see “The Lion King” on Broadway was at the center of a sharp exchange in court on Wednesday as a lawyer defending Ghislaine Maxwell against sex-trafficking charges tried to chip away at the testimony of a woman who says she was sexually abused by Jeffrey Epstein and Ms. Maxwell when she was a teenager.
The woman, identified only as “Jane” in the trial, had once told investigators that Mr. Epstein flew her to New York on his private jet to see “The Lion King” on Broadway in 1994, when she was 14. By then, according to the vivid account Jane testified to on Tuesday, Mr. Epstein and his longtime companion, Ms. Maxwell, had already pulled her into a pattern of persistent sexual abuse.
Ms. Maxwell’s lawyer, Laura Menninger, pounced on the 1994 date.
“The Lion King did not come out until 1997?” Ms. Menninger asked the witness. Questioned at length, Jane testified that she had been “incorrect in my timeline.”
The exchange was emblematic of the defense’s attempt to undercut the testimony of the first of the four accusers the government is expected to call to testify during the trial, in Federal District Court in Manhattan.
The defense also once again elicited testimony about the celebrities in the orbit of Mr. Epstein and Ms. Maxwell. On the witness stand, Jane said Mr. Epstein had taken her to Donald J. Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida in the 1990s, where she said she met Mr. Trump.
Ms. Menninger began the cross-examination on Wednesday by asking Jane what she had told family members about her initial meeting with Mr. Epstein, while she was away at a summer camp in Michigan in 1994.
Jane testified on Tuesday that Ms. Maxwell had approached her first and that Mr. Epstein had begun speaking with her afterward. But Ms. Menninger suggested that Jane had earlier told her older and younger brothers that she had been approached by Mr. Epstein.
“True you told your brother Brian you had been approached by Epstein?” Ms. Menninger asked. “Told your brother nothing about Maxwell being there?”
“I don’t recall,” Jane replied. Over the course of the morning’s questioning Jane testified that she could not remember enough to answer a variety of Ms. Menninger’s questions.
She said she could not recall whether she had told investigators in 2019 that she was not sure if Ms. Maxwell had ever touched or kissed her. She also said she could not recall if she had told them she did not remember Ms. Maxwell advising her on how to massage Mr. Epstein.
The defense lawyer asked Jane whether her current recollection of events was clear.
“As you sit here today,” Ms. Menninger asked, “you don’t remember if you and Ms. Maxwell and Mr. Epstein were ever in a room alone together?
“No,” Jane replied.
Ms. Menninger also appeared to hint that Jane might have a financial motive in accusing Ms. Maxwell of abuse, asking about whether she was supporting family members and pointing out that she had filed civil lawsuits against Ms. Maxwell and the Epstein estate and “participated” in a compensation fund for victims of Mr. Epstein.
She also asked Jane questions about her career as a soap opera actress — someone who “plays the role of a fictional character,” “takes lines borrowed from a writer” and is accustomed to “melodramatic or sentimental treatment” of reality.
At times, Jane sought to explain what the defense lawyer implied were unreliable recollections.
Ms. Menninger compared testimony about Ms. Maxwell calling Jane’s house to a statement she was said to have made in 2019 to investigators, in which she said that it was Mr. Epstein who had called.
“Two years later, now you remember that Ghislaine called your home to make appointments,” Ms. Menninger asked. “That memory has come back to you in the past two years?”
Jane replied: “Memory is not linear.”
Throughout the defense’s questioning, Jane largely retained her composure. But she seemed shaken at times during the follow-up questions from the prosecution, and at one point paused to weep and dab at her face with tissues.
During that redirect questioning, a prosecutor asked Jane why it had initially been hard for her to talk about being sexually abused and why she had not been able, during early meetings with investigators, to “share with the government all of the details of what had happened to you.”
“I was sitting in a room full of strangers and telling them the most shameful, deepest secrets I had been carrying around with me everywhere,” she replied. “It was too difficult, too difficult emotionally, too difficult on every level.”
A few moments later, the prosecutor asked Jane why she had shown up in court to testify.
“I’m here to hopefully finally find some sort of closure to all of this,” she said “to hopefully find some peace and healing some day.”